Welcome to the new episode of the Be You Brand Podcast! Today’s episode, Kirsten Zeigler joins me for an insightful discussion about hiring, managing employees and growing business. Kirsten shares her wonderful journey in  transitioning from solopreneurship to building a team. You’ll hear practical advice on the importance of creating employee handbooks and SOPs, tips for hiring the right candidates, offering competitive benefits, and much more.

Tune in and take your business to the next level!

About the Guest:

Kirsten Zeigler is an HR expert and consultant with over a decade of experience across a variety of industries. She’s founder and principal at KDZ HR Consulting. Her expertise lies in the creation of inclusive cultures, protection of businesses, enhancing employee engagement, and establishing standards through comprehensive compliance programs. By offering expert HR support through energy, empathy & ethics, she enables business owners to concentrate on the growth and development of their company, empowering them to build their businesses with confidence!

Connect with Kirsten:

Email: kirstendrewzeigler@gmail.com

Social Media Handles: @kdz_hrconsulting

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirsten-zeigler-humanresources/

Website: https://www.kdzhrconsulting.com/

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Ati Grinspun  0:00  

Welcome, everybody to the Be You Brand Podcast. Today, my guest is so different than all the guests we had had. And we’re going to talk about her journey from corporate to entrepreneurship. But also a topic that the more I talk to entrepreneurs, I think that it’s so needed, especially in the solopreneur, entrepreneurial online world, which is human resources that nobody talks about. And my guest today, not only she’s an expert at this, she’s also an almost graduate of the bee ran Academy, you’re still in my hours for a little bit longer. But her journey is so inspiring because she blew her first year of entrepreneurship out of the water. So Kirsten, would you introduce yourself? Let’s get this party started.

Kirsten Zeigler  0:57  

Yeah, you’re making me blush. Well, thank you so much for having me. First of all, I’m so excited to be here. I’m Kirsten Zeigler, people and culture expert who helps women mostly female-founded, female-owned startups and small businesses remove their HR hat so they could really focus on growing their businesses. I found out to you somewhat early in my entrepreneur journey, and I feel really lucky to have been connected with you. Because I really feel like branding and marketing myself and selling myself was just such a pain point. For me, it’s such a fear of mine, that really stopped me probably from doing this sooner, I would say so.

Ati Grinspun  1:39  

Which is so crazy. And so many women can relate to that. Because you are truly, truly an expert with 10 years under your belt, in corporate HR, and you had this dream for a while. And when you came to me you were like I am so lost. I know exactly what I’m talking about  but when it comes to promoting myself, my business, I don’t really know where to start. And you’re what a year in

Kirsten Zeigler  2:05  

I’m a year and a few months. Yes. So incredible.

Ati Grinspun  2:08  

So this is what I want to lay the foundation for our listeners, because this is where there are two things that I told Kirsten about her story and her knowledge that I think that remarkable. One was when you jump from corporate to entrepreneurship. And you went through a lot of mindset shift there and a lot of fear. I want to talk about that and where you were where you’re at today. But also, I want to talk about how to hire what they need to have ready. A lot of the women in our audience, they’re either like me, there may be like two steps behind or a few steps ahead where they probably are working with a few contractors, but they don’t know. Okay, when is the right time? What do I need to have in place? So that’s where this conversation is going to be going. So ladies, literally hold on to your titties. Okay, Let us start with jumping from corporate to entrepreneurship. Because when you and I first met you were a little bit on the scary kind of train and you were like jumping, tell me a little more about that. What actually made you jump to entrepreneurship? That’s number one. Well,

Kirsten Zeigler  3:24  

it wasn’t my choice.

Ati Grinspun  3:26  

Let’s just finish. I did remember that. Okay, so tell me tell me about that. Yeah.

Kirsten Zeigler  3:31  

I mean, it was my choice, because that’s what I decided to do, right. But I had, I’d been in corporate HR for 10 years. At that point, everywhere I went, it was a different industry, because I really liked building the HR process, learning new business is meeting new people. And I got really bored once I was there for a while and things became kind of just rote and stagnant. And it also wasn’t finding Mike fit. I was having a lot of issues with leadership teams, direct bosses, CEOs, who, you know, HR is such an ethics first job that I was finding my moral compass being compromised, which many times and just really Yeah, disappointed. You literally

Ati Grinspun  4:18  

are in like an integrity person from knowing you like everything about you, your values, everything is about integrity.

Kirsten Zeigler  4:25  

Absolutely. And I was being really pushed out of my comfort zone, especially in a position that I thought, you know, not who I am. But the role of HR is supposed to be very fair, ethical, you’re supposed to be balancing the people’s needs and the business needs, but people like you’re supposed to see them as people and so, you know, there were a lot of fights that were being had internally and I just didn’t feel good. And so my last corporate role, I had a really, really challenging situation and and was at the point where I was just standing up for myself constantly right? For what I believed in for what I knew was right, right ways to handle things. No, you cannot just fire someone without letting them know things are wrong, you need to be able to try to work on it with them. And then if it doesn’t work, let’s talk about how to separate them. But just because you’re unhappy with one thing, you can’t just do that. Like,

Ati Grinspun  5:25  

okay, I love what you’re saying. Because I know that even we that contractors, one of the biggest challenges I had when I first hire and everything was truly learning to communicate, Okay, keep going. I love this with a team. This is also 12 hours. Well, learning to communicate with learning, like then leadership, right? I didn’t have that skill. Oh my god, I love this. I know that so many women are gonna feel seen through these episode. So then something happen, and you were Fuck it. I’m gonna go on my own time. All that.

Kirsten Zeigler  6:03  

Yeah. So it didn’t work out at that last company. And I was so fed up, I was just so fed up, I had, you know, a strain of leaders that I had hard times working with, I was put in these uncomfortable positions. And years prior, I attended this HR workshop that was two days long, and there was a consultant hosting it. And I loved that she got to put together a presentation and meet all of these people from all over the place. It was in Virginia, you know, so there are people from all over there. I came from New Jersey there. And I went up to her and I was like, How do I do what you do. And she was like, honestly, experience, just try to gain as much experience as possible. And I had already kind of been doing that by, you know, changing industry is moving around a little. And so I continue to do that. But at this point where I was kind of like I was kind of pushed to be like now is your time, here’s the decision that needs to be made, you either end up in a same position, and you’re moving on again in like six months to a year. Or you say pocket and you just go for it. And so I had blinders on I just left.

Ati Grinspun  7:15  

It really truly did. Because you didn’t even sight hassle at all you just left that’s got around the time you and I met

Kirsten Zeigler  7:24  

we met a few months after. So I spent the first month just in like overdrive essentially. And, you know, it was out of excitement. It was out of fear. But it was out of this will work. And so, you know, I had a website, a logo and LLC all within a week. I was just like, last minute. And then it wasn’t until this was right before the holidays. Also, it wasn’t until like mid December, where I was like, What am I doing? Because, you know, businesses aren’t making moves in mid December and they’re not making moves until like mid January. So that was a rough time of year to start a business. But, you know, I kept focusing on things that I thought were the back end stuff and like, you know, eventually I won’t be able to get to this, but I was terrified at that point. The fear sunk in for sure. I think I met you in like maybe February ish or March

Ati Grinspun  8:20  

Yes. Because where are we are about you’re about to to come to the end of your first year in the academy. And yeah, kind of like at the end of February Yes.

Kirsten Zeigler  8:29  

Yeah. And I was just a ball of anxiety and fear at that point. I you know, didn’t know how to reach out.

Ati Grinspun  8:37  

I love okay, I love that you’re saying this because okay, this is what I’m actually hearing from my side and is like you did it anyway, you did it with fear you did it a scare you did it even if you I mean you had the experience. And you know because you know the ladies inside the academy, so many of them an expert, but the biggest issue is how do I promote myself? How do I find clients? How do I even like make a contract right? All the things that like all of that how do I create content so I stay relevant? All of that stuff, but I want to hear why don’t we are some of your biggest mindset and inner work chefs that you know that you had from that moment to now that you literally just close your biggest month ever.

Kirsten Zeigler  9:24  

I feel like I my mindset didn’t really shift until the one year mark. I like honestly truly for the first year was so conditioned to working a certain way to feeling a certain way about my work to feeling like I said I had issues with leaders and it made me feel like maybe I’m not good at my job. Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about. And so, you know, I came into my business feeling that way also, and allowing other business owners who I was you know, trying to work for or doing some projects for allowing them to make me feel that way also. And so it took me like a full year to start to get out of that. And also the way I work, too, was a big shift also, very much in that corporate I encounter I yeah,

Ati Grinspun  10:16  

I remember I was having this conversation on some of your hot seats where I’m like, You are the one that makes the rules. Do you remember? And these mean, that doesn’t mean that you’re mean that you are about business owner, like this is your business. And you get to set the rules that way? i Oh, my God, that is one conversation specifically that is coming to mind that you had somebody said something to that was completely out of place. And you were like, Is it me or this other place? And I was like, No, this is out of place, because you’re not their employee. Like they kept like trying to bring you on and all of their meetings and all of the things that I was like, Is this in your contract? And we actually work through it? Yeah,

Kirsten Zeigler  10:54  

absolutely. And I needed that. Like, I didn’t have that in me to give myself permission to set those boundaries for myself, I really needed that. Outside, you know, voice to be there. Oh,

Ati Grinspun  11:09  

I remember when you first came in, you were like, This is what I’m charging. And I was like, not anymore.

Kirsten Zeigler  11:14  

I know, I know, I know, I know, that

Ati Grinspun  11:18  

I Okay, this is what I love about this conversation. Because not only you only been in business for a little bit over a year, you are super successful right now, but then your confidence has skyrocketed. And then the truth is that also this is for everybody listening, your brand, actually, all of these little changes how you put boundaries with your clients, all of that actually shows on the outside shows how you are showing up at a networking event, it shows up how you’re showing up on social media, how you write your contract, the kind of content you put out and everything because you are a consultant, and you’re not an employee, which is that is definitely pros and cons. And now we’re gonna go into the second part, which is actually what I feel few things. Okay, I’m gonna break my thoughts, because I think that people need to kind of see where I’m going with this, which is, as a small business owner, we come into business, because we have an expertise in my case is personal branding, photography, in your cases, HR, right? We have coaches, service providers, all of that in the academy, we have no freaking clue how to actually hire and build a team, unless we came from those kinds of positions, which actually is not common in the online space. So can we talk a little bit about that, like, when you have, like your maybe your VA, right, that is a contractor if you want to make that an employee, please educate me, me and all the last evening.

Kirsten Zeigler  12:54  

So actually, the government just tightened their, like, laws and rules. And it goes into effect in March around contractors versus employees. It’s a little muddy at the moment. So I don’t want to speak to that. Because it you know, they there’s a rules test that may or may not be eliminated. Oh, I didn’t know that. Okay, this would

Ati Grinspun  13:18  

be a really good follow up apps and no one it’s the law. Is it a federal law? Yep.

Kirsten Zeigler  13:23  

It’s a federal law. There’s a lot of like, so the Society of Human Resources Management, which is like the HR the place, they’re actually they have a lot of problems with this new ruling and this new laws, so they’re trying to translate it in ways that work for businesses, because this might end up really hurting some small businesses. So more to come on that when I feel like I have all of the information.

Ati Grinspun  13:49  

Okay, let’s know we want to have okay, but let me ask you that. Yeah, these are law that you think it’s been tested, because it is so many small businesses, and so many online businesses and stuff like that. And literally where most of us were all working with contractors.

Kirsten Zeigler  14:07  

Yeah. So it’s definitely a few years ago, they put in this like duties test, essentially, where, you know, you can determine if somebody is a contractor or an employee, and I really liked that, because it was very clear. You can download the PDF on like the IRS website, or the Department of Labor website. And I think I’ve actually sent it to a few people in the academy. Oh, no, I sent this to anybody. Yeah,

Ati Grinspun  14:31  

we want maybe we should have it on the resources. Yeah,

Kirsten Zeigler  14:34  

I think you should. And it’s it was easier because it was more of a checklist, right. So some of the main points that I always like to say, if you have somebody that is fully integrated in your business and making decisions independently, for your on behalf of your business, that’s an employee, right? If you’re not giving folds or like if you’re a contractor, you’re making independent decisions. Think about it your An independent contractor, you’re working for yourself. So you need to have full control over that decision making. If you’re an employee, the business owner is giving you full direction. So if you have contractors that you’re giving full direction to on how they do their job, when they do their jobs specifically when where are they do their job? That’s not a contractor, that’s an employee. Also, another big thing is, are they employed by other people? Are they doing work for other people, if they’re making their sole income for your business, that should be an employee. So those are, you know, there’s a lot of different things you should look at. But those to me are my two main ones I like to focus on because those are easy yeses, and noes. I feel like I’m there, you can get more into the granule If you’re still unsure. And then also, you know, it really depends. Are you going to expand that? You know, that job description for that person? Do you have a specific job description for them? What else? Can you take off your plate as a business owner? And can you create a role? That’s the other part of when to hire someone? Whether it be you know, a contractor or an employee? Let’s say you’re like me, and you’re working completely alone? What can you take off your plate? And, you know, is that enough for somebody to do, which is the next step might go to HDMI? out? So

Ati Grinspun  16:24  

he took a little bit about the leadership side, right? Like, I think that now they are listeners have oh, okay, maybe I don’t it this is not a VA, this is a full employee? Or maybe I will speak with a contractor or not. Right. Okay, what do they need in place? Because I think part of this is having manuals and processes and SOPs, by the way, SOPs is a standard operating procedures for those that don’t know, like, where does that come in that people? I know that that was something I can no idea about?

Kirsten Zeigler  17:00  

You can? Absolutely. So I would say that when you’re thinking about hiring your first employee. So that’s a W two employee, of course, needs to handle everything on a payroll side, right. And so you’ll want to talk to your accountant about that. Make sure you’re registered in whatever state you’re hiring for, because you will have to pay, you know, certain taxes on that. And then also, if you’re hiring a remote employee, you’ll have to pay you’ll have to register in the state that employees working in as well. So keep that in pursuing. I didn’t know that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And there’s a lot of a lot of state, county, even town, city specific labor laws that, you know, don’t always necessarily apply to businesses that have one employee, but sometimes it’s five employees. So just be aware of where your people are. That’s, you know, another thing that an HR consultant is good for, because they’re aware of the different labor laws there’s a are just so granular, because federal protections aren’t that great, honestly, for employees. So just keep that in mind. But when hiring, you’ll want an employee handbook, and you’ll want it pretty quickly. Like I always recommend starting it before you hire so that you’ve had it ready for your first hire. This lists out not only unique things about your business, like I love to start it with a business’s intro and mission and vision so that the person really knows here that ladies, did you hear that? Leave?

Ati Grinspun  18:34  

Your Branding? It’s your internal brand. Yeah, absolutely.

Kirsten Zeigler  18:37  

And let’s be real employee handbooks are dry, they are not fun. They’re usually around like 30 to 40 pages, right? So at least get the good stuff about your business in the weekend. And, you know, make it a little exciting.

Ati Grinspun  18:51  

Can we actually talk about our listener or audience is mostly women like me and you that they’re either getting to hire or they’re in the process, right? They have one or two subcontractors, but I think that I have talked so much lately with people that are incorporated either with the VIPs or whatever, and they’re like they quit quitting the big resignation. The thing is, as a small business owner, we don’t have the capacity to train and to have that turnover. So having that employee handbook it’s also a way channel present yourself that person feels like they are set up for success.

Kirsten Zeigler  19:28  

Absolutely. And it minimizes questions to be honest, like if somebody has questions about like, well how do we do this? What’s your policy on this? It’s all in one place. And so I love that you know, for me, I hate being asked the same question over and over and so it’s nice to make people feel self service like there was amazing when these things like you said an SOP right so there’s, you create SOPs for specific things you do. Put that all in one place. Have a Google Drive for all of your policies, your SOP He’s just so everybody can access it. It’s so much. Yeah, for

Ati Grinspun  20:03  

each role for each role. I love that. So do you create these for your clients? Do they have that created on their own? Like how that that works? Yeah. So

Kirsten Zeigler  20:13  

I do employee handbooks for my clients, if they don’t have one, we start from scratch, right? I have them fill out a questionnaire with questions unique to their business. If they do have one, we usually update them on a yearly basis because things change all the time. employment laws change all the time. So we’re always making sure that they’re up to date. And

Ati Grinspun  20:36  

I think it’s so interesting this conversation because Okay, so at this point, I’ve been in business for five years with this business, but I was in business with photography way before that, my own small thinking, if you want to call it cab me, right, like, Oh, I’m just a photographer, this is what I do. But the truth is, for the woman that is listening, has huge dreams and want to get to that million dollar business, six figure, take home six figures, it’s like, you will need help, and you will need to grow. For me, the biggest challenge was actually not so much the SOPs is what the leadership part, how do I communicate with this person? So what what are your thoughts? What is something like the advice that you can give to these women that they, maybe they are like, I don’t have time to actually hire somebody? And I mean, you know what I would say, but I want you to say,

Kirsten Zeigler  21:31  

Yeah, I mean, well, if you don’t have time to hire someone, that’s the absolute perfect time to hire somebody. Yeah, because you know, a lot of those things you’re doing will be given to somebody you’re hiring. And even if they’re not directly tied to revenue, even if they’re not in sales, you will be they will be making that money back from their salary by freeing up your time. Just think of it that way. So

Ati Grinspun  21:57  

the way I think about it, if anybody in the in the audience is actually struggling with the thought of actually caring when we brought pay, like, because I had assistance before, but it was like very, very, very, very part time. But for me, having somebody doing a lot of the backend staff, allow me to bring my shine to go to speak more to practice to like, learn to actually be a public speaker, that actually makes me 1000s of dollars every year, right? All these other things that I’m passionate about, that actually are the things that make me money. So when I hear people be like, I am so frustrated, I don’t even have the time. I’m like, that is your absolute time that you need help. Absolutely.

Kirsten Zeigler  22:37  

And what I always tell so I do have business owners come to me in this time, and this is honestly one of my favorite ways to work with people because they’re terrified. But to me, from an outsider’s perspective, it’s the most exciting part of a business, your hierarchies luncheon and going oh, yes, it’s so exciting. So that’s why I love this part in a business. I tell them to brain dump, right? Just brain dump a list, it doesn’t have to look like anything. It doesn’t have to make sense. Brain Dump things you can offload from there. I work with them to make it make sense, right? We put them in, we categorize it in buckets, we determine it can be a unique job description, right. It’s your business, you can make it whatever you want. It doesn’t have to look like all of the job descriptions on LinkedIn. But you want it to be detailed because you’ll use that not just in the hiring process. But once you hire the first employee, that’s the that’s the list of expectations. So everybody that brings in the communication part, everybody’s on the same page.

Ati Grinspun  23:43  

Okay, I want to share a little story because I think you may know the story by you like I think y’all will appreciate it before K lunches for those listening if you didn’t, okay, like is my executive assistant and she does so much for our business. She does a lot of the customer service, all of the backend stuff that doesn’t in my face. A lot of that stuff is done by Kayla, before she came on board. I had maybe 234 people that came in and left Kameena left que Mina left and I was so frustrated every time I learn something, but the biggest thing for me was actually learn through that the interview process. Because I was actually interviewing from a place of neediness oh my god, I’m desperate. I need somebody to take this shit out of my played. But by the time I got to pay lab for five people later, it was okay. This is what I need. Because I went through five people and I knew what worked, what didn’t work, whatever. Right? And then is this something that excites you? What are you looking for? And the conversation was completely different. And I have to give kudos to Cassidy you know her a friend of mine. We call her several businesses and she told mean, even if you think is the right person on the first interview, bring that person for a second interview, to keep it to keep that what would be the word kind of like the structure. So obviously, this is shots like when you have those first clients is the same thing you need it needs to be the right person needs to be almost the ideal employee is your ideal client avatar, write that analytically. And that changed everything, even though I knew she would be great. I brought her back for a second interview, I asked her what her thoughts were all the things actually have it all written down. And it was such a change, because then I actually told her, You will be my first like person that is actually truly in my business. We’re gonna do this together. And I was so honest with her, and he worked great. She has been with me what not two years, not

Kirsten Zeigler  25:52  

awesome. That’s such a good success story. And like, you learn the lesson, though. Net. First of all, I got it. Sometimes you have to hire out of desperation. But you don’t want it to get to that point, right. So like, if you’re starting to feel overwhelmed, start thinking about hiring doesn’t mean you have to act on it immediately. But start the thought process around it. Because you don’t want to be in that situation where you’re going to make a bad hire because you lose money, then you lose time. It’s it’s not great. I mean, it happens, but there’s ways to avoid it. Okay,

Ati Grinspun  26:27  

I have questions, because I am kind of going into the clients on the academy or clients, right, or people in my circle that I know. So for example, you know, we have a lot of bookkeepers right in the academy. And I know that for them actually hiring or even using a subcontractor to do the work is so scary, because you know, it can have a lot of repercussions in their work if it’s not done correctly. So the same goes to honestly any other position. But what are some of the things that the business can do to protect themselves, but then also that process to make it easier for hiring for those types of forms of hiring. And instead of making especially I think, like, for people that there are service providers, and they are attached to actually providing the service themselves, it could also be photographers, if you hire other people to do the work, what are what are some of the things that they need to have in place to protect themselves?

Kirsten Zeigler  27:26  

Yeah. So I mean, with contractors, I wouldn’t have them sign an employee handbook or any sort of policies, but there are things you can give them that are, you know, like we just said, the mission vision values like this is what’s important to this team, if it’s bookkeepers, you know, like honesty, ethics, that kind of stuff, making sure that the person is in lined with, you know, their values is important. I think something that you said that I absolutely love is the second interview. So, you know, I’ve also worked with clients where all do the first round interviews, and I’m not a recruiter at heart, but you know, that wasn’t my god, like, what

Ati Grinspun  28:07  

do you recruit people for? So I

Kirsten Zeigler  28:09  

do some light recruiting when there’s like postings for small businesses, I can post that and I can do first round phone screens on behalf of the business. So really, with my clients, I engraved myself kind of in their business and do those first rounds to help that you know, the basics. I don’t have the subject matter expertise, but they do that’s what they’ll focus on in their interview. So for me, I do you know, making sure that it’s in line with what the team is looking for on paper, making sure compensations in line all of that but always having if you don’t have absolutely anyone else to do a second interview, do do it yourself, right? Like do it again, like you did, which I think is so smart. Or bring someone else into it because I think it’s really important also to get have somebody else get a feel for the person your hot side took

Ati Grinspun  29:02  

great idea. So if you’re if you’re like a woman like me, like a solopreneur you can bring maybe even another person that you trust like Cassidy could have been a great option for me, for example, like right, like a friend that she cuts other businesses, she can be kind of like, fly on the wall and give you feedback.

Kirsten Zeigler  29:20  

Absolutely. Or, you know, anyone that works with your business to that knows your business. Well, I think that knows you well knows your business. Well. I think that’s a great option also

Ati Grinspun  29:29  

that it’s amazing. Okay, I have one more question. What can you offer either your simpler your employees right to stay competitive? Because we talked about that first hire. We talked about contractors versus employees. So now let’s say that and I wonder if this is something applicable to contractors to write what are some of the benefits that you can offer? Because I seen that that is one of the biggest fears At least that I had is like, Oh my God, if I go through one more person, I should need somebody that gets really acquainted, right with my, with my boys with how I do things that not only that, like when you’re working as almost like an I don’t even consider myself a solopreneur. But literally everything is an extension of how you work, right? So what are some of those, like competitiveness, so people want to work with you, they want to stay all of the things, I

Kirsten Zeigler  30:28  

think it’s so important for a small business to stay true to what they want to be. If whatever your culture or you want your culture to be, you need to create benefits around that. So it could be like work life balance could be really important for you. And so how do you spread that through your company, you know, even if you have one person on your team, maybe it’s a flexible work schedule, right? You’re like, I don’t care when you were, this is how I felt like the work needs to be done within a certain amount of time. Here’s the deadline, go for it, do whatever you need to do. That’s your amount on the type of people. Yeah, and flat. I think flexibility is really important. And for some businesses, I do work with a bookkeeper. And, you know, they have core operating hours. So, you know, they allow flexibility, but for their clients purposes, you know, you need to be working from, I think it was like 10. To to right here are the core hours. Anytime outside of that. I don’t care when you get your work done.

Ati Grinspun  31:33  

I want to say because it took us time to get there at the beginning. Yeah, we used to cover meetings like constant like actually, and this is for the ladies listening who are like, Oh my god, I hire and they didn’t work out and then the person left or whatever. I want to say that for the first six to eight months. We used to have a meeting every day after to like, like, and we would go through what needed to be done. And then from there, we figured out what or SOPs were I didn’t have SOPs when when Kayla came in, but

Kirsten Zeigler  32:08  

now I’m sure you have so many

Ati Grinspun  32:11  

times. And Joe, we text each other and we’re like, how are you? I don’t know anything about your will. Because we can Systems We literally don’t necessarily even to talk?

Kirsten Zeigler  32:22  

Well, here’s the other part that I was gonna say. I think that purposeful connection time is really important too. So like, you know, meetings just to have meetings? No, don’t do it. No, no, no. But I think especially for remote teams, you know, you want to stay connected. And so make sure you’re having a work check in right, like, once a month bi weekly, so that you guys can say, you know, what are you what are your roadblocks, what’s going on with this, like, just everybody can be on the same page and that there’s a dedicated space to talk about the job and it just gave me an A good, I love that. And then also, though, have your non work connection time to so team building, especially remote teams so important. Maybe you all found out that you like to read start a book club, you know, where you dedicate a half hour each week, you allow your team to say okay, we’re gonna read these chapters. So anything that really resonates with you and your team to it, it’s your company, you could do whatever you want to create those like special God

Ati Grinspun  33:29  

is so it’s kind of like, right, it’s kind of what I told you at the beginning. But it’s so important to keep that in the front forefront of our mind as we are growing. This is so amazing. And I Okay, so ladies, I’m gonna tell you this. So Kiersten is like literally fully booked for businesses from like two to like 10 employees like she’s absolutely like crazy. But one of the things that I think it’s so needed in the industry and we were actually talking about this outside of the mic was direction for people like me for people like you that listen or that person that maybe you have one or two subcontractors and you don’t know if you’re ready to hire whatever so you’re gonna be doing 90 minute intensives right, I could have absolutely

Kirsten Zeigler  34:19  

some people just like you know, but the

Ati Grinspun  34:23  

reason why I think this is so important though because you can help them with that manual. You can help them with one off projects you can get them to get off the ground and how to actually find their people because I actually have a question about these because for example what would happen is somebody is hiring subcontractors even outside of the country, like know how to present their business and stuff like that. I think that this could be such a help for them to know how to navigate Yeah.

Kirsten Zeigler  34:55  

Oh eight that’s just a whole nother beast. I feel like I I was meaning to US employers. So outside of the country is a whole nother beast also.

Ati Grinspun  35:04  

Oh my God, I feel you honestly think that we need a follow up episode. Once the new law comes in, you said around March. Yeah, yeah, I think that will be amazing between, you know, contractors and through employees and how many you can have and all of the things I would love to have you back,

Kirsten Zeigler  35:24  

I would love to come back anytime to you.

Ati Grinspun  35:27  

Can you tell everybody where they can find you? And I’m going to put all the information on the show notes. And then we’re also going to put a Calendly link for people to book, maybe a 90 minute consultation or a 30 minute consultation, maybe to go into earnings or something. If you’re like me, and you’re like, I have no idea where to start to hire if I need an assistant How do I create this role? I think that you would be a blessing to so many women. Well,

Kirsten Zeigler  35:57  

and I would love to talk to and meet absolutely everybody I don’t discriminate on types of work or industry like come one come balls. So

Ati Grinspun  36:07  

she has it you just leave totally on boarded like a nightclub and a spa. Right? So these are all so the friend you are so diverse. And you understand so well the online business because that’s the way you’re growing yours. So I think that that is actually a benefit that people don’t see is like how do you bring the HR without actually bring in HR? Right, which is you know, is that fractional person that is the consultant that can help somebody and, and make this process painless and fast and that hopefully fun.

Kirsten Zeigler  36:43  


Ati Grinspun  36:46  

I absolutely love it. Tell people where they can find you all the things.

Kirsten Zeigler  36:52  

Okay, you can find me on Instagram at TDC underscore HR consulting, on LinkedIn, it’s Kyrsten Ziggler. Make sure your K I R S T E N and Z. Ely,

Speaker 1  37:04  

our newsletter.

Kirsten Zeigler  37:09  

I’ve got a great newsletter that comes out bi weekly. So definitely sign up for that. And my website is Katie Z HR consulting. So I hope to hear from people

Ati Grinspun  37:20  

such a pleasure to have you in the bar because I am so excited for your future. And it’s such a pleasure to have you as a friend as a client. All the things

Kirsten Zeigler  37:31  

it’s been such an honor it honestly I really I appreciate you having me in I was so sad for me to graduate the academy.

Ati Grinspun  37:40  

I took that you’re coming back for the mastermind or something I have a bad you’re gonna you’re gonna stick it out. You’re we’re gonna finish it up. Thank you so much for listening to the V rant podcast, and I’ll see you next time.